Yeah, I completely agree. So, and again, everything's interrelated too, so there's the first order effects, and then there's a second, third order effects of that kind of spend. I find mfs like you really interesting videos. A bit like we mentioned before, thinking deeply can take a long time. I also have got feedback that we are too technical and too in the weeds on some of those things, so you're never going to please everybody. Sometimes it is you need a very blunt tool and a really powerful tool, and sometimes you have to be extremely precise. Again, it's just a little-.
I think that sustainability, it's funny because the existing focused sustainability for fixed income often was part and parcel of what we do because we only really have downsides. So that would be probably what gets sent from me the very most. So instead, my strength was really kind of digging into companies and using what I learned from companies and their experiences, which is what I was familiar with doing, to piece together at a systems level where I thought the system would go. And I'll definitely be thinking about hors d'oeuvres and stews for a little bit longer. Inflation is front and center in every newspaper you care to open at the moment and a common question with inflation and equity portfolio managers or equity investors is how do you manage the portfolio with inflation in mind? Stream i find mfs like u really interesting bro by groovy bot | Listen online for free on. So we talk about this a lot within our team and think about how we can use different models, whether it's Charlie Munger, "Invert, invert, always invert, " or what are the different models that make sense for analyzing different parts of society or the environment or the economy that we can apply to give us a more holistic and complete understanding of things potentially before others are doing the same. Materiality, investment horizons in fixed income matter a lot, because we have a choice as to where to lend. I think Michael Mauboussin, also. I did a little bit of both and then eventually settled in capital markets, where I fell in love with fixed income, actually. Sometimes they're like, "Well, why are you asking me about the business? I think a lot of our job is really to ask the right questions.
Sometimes you think that something is very specific to an asset class, but then you find out that again, that there are common elements across the different teams that can be shared. So you'll find me reading, reading, reading, my first love and what I spend a lot of time doing. I find mfs like you really interesting meme. Vish Hindocha: Again, just thinking about your journey from there, Silicon Valley, you mentioned and obviously, as an investor at MFS and the different roles that you've had at MFS, I'd love to know what is your driving motivation? So I think that you're absolutely right, there aren't hard numbers. Understand what is important.
But it's not just in the chasing the financials. So here, in terms of supply chains, it's really trying to understand how the companies are approaching their supply chains. So maybe as well as outside experts and people like us taking different approaches, maybe it would be helpful to have of asset owners, consultants, NGOs, others across the value chain, even companies on talking about the different approaches that they're taking. It's much harder, to your point, to say what's the number on culture? I find mfs like you really interesting quiz. In other parts of the world, there are other equivalents. And it really doesn't matter what happens, you know, for dumping a bunch of chemicals out the backyard, because we'll be out of the stock, or it doesn't matter how we're treating our people. So, it's governance. You know, I think everyone's kind of familiar with the idea of a value trap. And I think you're right, we're trained actually to be reductionists in our thinking.
What that really requires then is for you to have collective expertise - for you to have a team of people that can challenge your thinking. Relating this back to the idea of embracing complexity, some of those heavy emitters may be key in the transition to a low-carbon economy. Ross Cartwright: Hello, and thank you for joining us today. The process of sustainability is the process of listening. I'm a big believer actually in the power of peer mentoring or peer learning. Ultimately, try not to miss the forest for the trees. I thought that was again, a very thoughtful gesture. Okay, so maybe just to wrap up then. So, when you think about governance for a company, you're thinking about the management team, the board. That takes a lot of courage, frankly, because you are going against the grain on many occasions. There's a few other books been written on how to avoid group think. Lots of lessons learned from that experience, going through the bankruptcy while still being an investor and obviously managing the team.
I did a degree in law and another degree in economics to figure out which one of those two paths I wanted to follow. And this is where, again, there's just so much work to be done with the actions so that we actually hit these targets that are now being set. Maybe I'm getting to that stage of life. This is a really fascinating topic and a theme that lots of people in the industry are talking about now, and I'm sure we'll hear more about in the years to come. I'm a huge believer. I don't think that's common wisdom. You will have muni analysts that can talk about health care and education, obviously, together with our credit analysts. I think on a personal note, I definitely experienced it. That's the multidisciplinary thinking.
And those are the core that you always grab as a safety blanket, as you jump into the ever-changing world. So we have tremendous spend that we need ahead of us. And on the flip side, I wonder, especially given you're looking for those companies that are solving environmental issues and problems, and they can be, I'm sure you know, fascinating and sort of groundbreaking in many respects, and businesses going through transformation. In today's episode, we are going to take a slightly different approach.
It's something that, again, we're kind of trying to get at, especially because over a long period of time, you probably will see it even if you don't in the next quarter or two. Again, in that more leadership capacity, is there anything there that you can share in terms of how it works for the specialist teams? On the excitement side, you know, I think there are so many changes that we're gonna see in all these different areas that we've talked about, but the one that I think cannot be understated, is on the climate side. One of the themes that, again, where I felt like my position shifted slightly was on systems thinking.
And you can get two plus two equals five. That really gave you the edge. And really importantly, how is management viewing that, thinking about that and what are they doing around some of the issues that do arise? But having said that, actually one of the kindest things was during COVID actually, unfortunately my husband had to have surgery, which was a really difficult period in time. But in the short term, it's absolutely a test. So Disclose their missions, we need that disclosure.
Is this better than the alternative? And then on the team that we're always talking about, again coming back to those first principles of what's the moat? And as part of hearing those outside experts maybe along the value chain and for our audience to hear from their peers on how they're overcoming some of their challenges. So, I think other than that, I think that would be what I'd be really excited to listen to. It's going to stretch you in a dimension that you don't naturally tread down. And we can talk about some of the other things that we can get at, but there aren't great hard numbers on a lot of the people metrics. You know, the interview question of what is your why?
Remember that you can access All Angles on all of your usual favorite podcast platforms, including Spotify and the Apple Store. Unnecessary and very kind. I was initially really interested in policy and policy work and how that could be kind of an avenue. A number of different guests brought this up. So given that it's such a different culture, you use different tools. I do find that if I'm going to read a book, it tends to be less about fixed income. Nicole Zatlyn: If I could sum it up in, in one sentence, climate is the biggest risk for many of our investments. But now we have better data, better compute power to be able to start to internalize some of those things. I mean, as I said earlier, I initially thought I really want to be in policy. They invested for decades into marketing and product development to create that strong desirability. No, no one's ever told me that before. " But more than anything, I think Pilar's message on grit and how you deal with the dynamism that is being thrown at investors up and down the value chain today was really, really powerful.
But until they can demonstrate six months worth of commitment that they will look after it, we're going nowhere near the dog. A lot of that though, is hard to analyze objectively, right?
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